tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7367527072664881186.post8215026402611543055..comments2024-03-20T01:41:37.698-07:00Comments on Mad Bioneer: Primary vs. Secondary Decomposing MushroomsEdmund Williamshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14641544307516292564noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7367527072664881186.post-90508886445205917922018-07-30T20:58:41.945-07:002018-07-30T20:58:41.945-07:00Awesome post about Primary vs. Secondary Decomposi...Awesome post about Primary vs. Secondary Decomposing Mushrooms. Primary decomposers are not particularly complete in how much they decompose. The secondary decomposer moves in and picks up where the primary decomposer left off. If the mushroom will fruit of just sawdust, vertical or horizontal surface, it is probably a primary decompose and if it requires a casing layer and only fruits from a horizontal surface, it is probably a secondary decomposer. I had a little bit idea about Mushroom Spawns from Agrinoon, a Leading Producer and distributor of Mushroom Spawn. Thanks for sharing.Delun Kanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01143698207441038454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7367527072664881186.post-18954881844124016002016-02-29T13:51:22.638-07:002016-02-29T13:51:22.638-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Safak Tan Ozkanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12976207428867643774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7367527072664881186.post-37027104145408978612016-02-29T13:50:43.501-07:002016-02-29T13:50:43.501-07:00Ed, I am hooked to your blog. So much system think...Ed, I am hooked to your blog. So much system thinking going on in it. Being an Industrial Engineer, I love seeing new ways to elevate system reliability, durability and increased efficiency accompanied with symbiotic relationships. You have inspired my soon to be aquaponics project to a totally new level.<br />Thanks for your insightful blog.<br />Keep up the good work...<br />Cheers,<br />Shafak from istanbulSafak Tan Ozkanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12976207428867643774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7367527072664881186.post-79001220365413532582016-02-21T08:17:45.535-07:002016-02-21T08:17:45.535-07:00Yeah, basically. Currently my system isn't big...Yeah, basically. Currently my system isn't big enough to support large logs, but the "finished" logs I have tossed in have almost universally produced more mushrooms. I grew king stropharia mushrooms (an avowed secondary decomposer) last year and they did great. So as I move forward, I am really looking forward to trying more combinations. <br /><br />The problem is that I live in the Phoenix area. Our late fall to mid spring weather is perfect for growing mushrooms, but our summer weather is not conducive to most varieties, being very hot and very dry. So I have a limited ability to experiment.<br /><br />I agree that many of the best varieties are mycorrhizal, but I wonder about the ability to cultivate those in a system like this. Most form associations with tree in a fairly specific environment.<br /><br />I agree with you assessment on morels, though. I need to do more research, but there is certainly a possibility there. Morels are a tough one, but there are two of their growth requirements that would fit well with my system. The first is that they tend to fruit really well following floods. My system is flooded regularly. The second is that they tend to fruit really well following fires. I am going to start experimenting with biochar. Maybe they will respond to biochar similarly to how they respond to fires. It is all worth finding out.Edmund Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14641544307516292564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7367527072664881186.post-76859156238334600032016-02-21T05:34:46.634-07:002016-02-21T05:34:46.634-07:00Thanks for the response! So, in an aquaponics syst...Thanks for the response! So, in an aquaponics system, are you adding both logs for the primary decompsers, and a secondary to the soil?<br /><br />I'm sort of fascinated by this, as many of the best mushrooms are mycoryzal and not saprobic, or at least have different growth stages that are mycoryzal. I'm thinking here of, say, morels, which are real tough to cultivate. But like you say, what happens if you grow them in a soil based aquaponics system? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11252828471916475255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7367527072664881186.post-86462983044892445022016-02-19T07:28:33.266-07:002016-02-19T07:28:33.266-07:00That is actually a pretty good question. The easy ...That is actually a pretty good question. The easy answer is no, they decompose the remaining organic matter in the log. The harder answer is...maybe. Certain mushrooms, likey elm oysters (Hypsizygus ulmarius), which is a primary decomposer, have been shown to increase the growth of plants in their general area. The question is, do they do so because of the increased availability of local nutrients, or do they do so because they have worked out a sort of mycorrhizal arrangement with the plants for direct barter? I think more research is necessary, for sure. <br /><br />As for most of the secondary decomposers, there is still plenty of complex organic molecules in the leftover wood after the primary decomposers get to it. They just go afte a wider variety of compounds than the primary decomposers do, and they probably help break down the bodies of the primary decomposer fungus as well. <br /><br />As for existing simultaneously, not really. Mushrooms are pretty possessive about their food sources and have a variety of techniques to keep what is theirs. Most mushroom growers will sequence the mushrooms. When the primaries are done, they pasteurize and then inoculate the secondaries.Edmund Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14641544307516292564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7367527072664881186.post-17977645646683148052016-02-19T05:44:51.572-07:002016-02-19T05:44:51.572-07:00Awesome post! I'm a longtime reader and marine...Awesome post! I'm a longtime reader and marine biologist, and your systems fascinate me. One question - are secondary fungus also mycoryzal? If not, what do they eat? Or can they exist simultaneously with primary desomposers on the same log? Or do you add wood that a primary decompose is already done with to the soil?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11252828471916475255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7367527072664881186.post-85737573545617875922016-02-16T20:03:00.165-07:002016-02-16T20:03:00.165-07:00Video is probably not a bad idea. Not sure when I ...Video is probably not a bad idea. Not sure when I will get to it, though. As for multiple beds, I have two. Both share a main tank and a sump tank. For larger systems, you could go either way. I am currently considering building a larger system with 4 beds. At this point, I want to do either 2 or 4 main tanks, but all would share the same sump. That would keep all of them on the same water system and help average out demand.<br /><br />And no, I don't use siphons. They are a dubious idea for traditional aquaponics and a fairly terrible idea with soil. They would plug in a matter of days. Mine has a direct drain with a filter and a cage and it still has trouble with occasional plugging. <br /><br />As for fish, I have blue tilapia.Edmund Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14641544307516292564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7367527072664881186.post-65607950055799686372016-02-16T19:29:44.310-07:002016-02-16T19:29:44.310-07:00This is awesome! I wanna try this once I get the s...This is awesome! I wanna try this once I get the system up and running. I wanted to ask you if you could make a short video walkthrough of your setup, I understand it's a basic CHOP system but would still appreciate a more thorough representation. I also have a question regarding additional mushroom beds; since they are still in the loop with the rest of the system do you drain them to one central sumptank or they have their own? <br />I also wanted to ask if you used a water siphon for draining and also what type of fish is working in your system.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07976129612516969486noreply@blogger.com